Obama Proposes Executive Orders For Backdoor Gun Confiscation

Mikael Thalen
by
January 4th, 2014
Updated 01/04/2014 at 9:07 pm

The Obama Administration announced two new executive orders on gun control Friday, after countless other attempts to erode Second Amendment rights failed to gain public support.

gunconfiscationAccording to one of the proposed actions, patient privacy laws would be pushed aside to allow increased government access to mental health records. Currently required to protect that information, states would now be exempt, instead encouraged to submit a patients private records into the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS).

A second proposal from the Department of Justice would “clarify” who is barred from owning firearms, which would include anyone involuntarily committed to an inpatient or outpatient mental institution. In an attempt to diminish concern, the administration claims that seeking help for mental issues does not prohibit a person from firearm ownership.

“The proposed rule will not change the fact that seeking help for mental health problems or getting treatment does not make someone legally prohibited from having a firearm,” the statement said.

Unfortunately, even without the executive orders currently applied, the government has already deceptively used this exact tactic to revoke legitimate gun ownership without due process, an issue that will undoubtedly increase.

In 2012, Afghanistan and Iraq veteran Brandon Raub had his firearms confiscated after being involuntarily detained for psychiatric questioning due to Facebook comments on government corruption. According to Raub’s lawyer John Whitehead, as many as 20 others had recently been detained and declared mentally defective in the same Virginia county as well, despite no crime initially being committed.

That same year, David Sarti, best known for his appearance on National Geographic’s Doomsday Prepper show, was committed to a psychiatric ward and deemed “mentally defective” after complaining to his doctor about chest pains. Declining to have tubes inserted into his heart by cardiologists, doctors claimed Sarti was suicidal, prompting the FBI to revoke his Second Amendment right.

The targeting of veterans specifically is quite clear. A collaborative study from 2007 between the VA Medical Center and the Archives of Internal Medicine claimed that at least 1/3rd of returning veterans were mentally ill.

An amendment in a 2012 defense bill spearheaded by Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer attempted to collect the names of veterans deemed too mentally incompetent to handle their finances. The list would then admittedly be handed over to the NICS, removing the gun rights of all listed veterans without due process.

Just last year, countless veterans began receiving a letter from the Veterans Administration warning that their mental health was suddenly under review. The letter continued by saying that the right to own weapons would be removed if bureaucrats deemed them “incompetent” outside of law.

Given the Obama Administration’s view toward returning military, the assault on veterans is unsurprising. In fact, a 2009 Homeland Security report labeled returning veterans as likely domestic terrorists. Despite the outrageous claim, former DHS chief Janet Napolitano defended the report. Incredibly, the DHS announced that Boy Scout Explorers were being trained to kill “disgruntled Iraq war veterans” in a New York Times piece only one month later.

Despite the endless denials of gun confiscation, California residents were greeted by Justice Department agents in California last year as the state expanded its confiscation program. Lynette Phillips, who had been involuntarily held in a mental hospital after her nurse exaggerated the severity of her condition, had her and her husband’s firearms removed by from their home by armed agents.

Following the passage of the NY SAFE Act, New York residents began receiving letters telling them to turn in their firearms and permits as well. One legal gun owner had his firearms taken after a provision in the law allowed his medical records, which detailed his prescriptions, to be shared with authorities.

The media and administration’s failure to mention these countless abuses, justified through accessing mental health records, paints a clear picture of how these executive orders would be carried out. Masquerading as a mental health fix, the same system that has pushed dangerous prescription drugs for decades is now using it against law-abiding Americans.

In an ironic and telling move, a Pennsylvania court recently ruled that a state trooper who was previously hospitalized for depression would not be allowed to own a firearm “off-duty.” Regardless if the officer was an actual danger, the court ruled that due to his likely mental illness, he would only be allowed to carry a firearm “on duty,” showing how government is not subjected to the same rules as citizens.

Despite gun homicide seeing a 49 percent drop since 1993, the establishment has continued to ignore facts with its attempt to push gun control. The same Justice Department involved in gun running through Fast and Furious is now attempting to lecture the public on gun safety, unsurprising given Attorney General Eric Holder’s comments on “brainwashing” the public to be anti-gun.

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Category: Constitution, Health, Second Amendment

Mikael Thalen

About the Author ()

Mikael is the lead features writer at Storyleak.com. His articles have been featured on sites such as the Drudge Report, Infowars and Natural News. During his time at Examiner.com, he was frequently ranked the number one political writer.

Comments (246)

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  1. J82 says:

    Horrific!!!!

  2. Mr. Liberty says:

    Obamacare was designed to do two things: bankrupt the middle class and develop a national gun registry. Looks like it is getting both goals accomished tremendously…we must repeal this legislation!!

  3. Mr.Lincoln says:

    Until we eliminate this our Bill of Rights is dead!

    Yes, America is Still in an Official State of Emergency Global Research, February 11, 2010
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/yes-america-is-still

  4. everyone giving the gov the middle finger, actually voting in people that are not bought off by globalists

  5. Mr.Lincoln says:

    Now, the Fascist are going all in Texas style!

    Texas business groups ally to counter tea party influence in GOP primaries By CHRISTY HOPPE Austin Bureau 04 January 2014
    http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/headlines

  6. Mr. Liberty says:

    Alinsky,

    What is your definition of a free market?

    No monopolies? No regulations? etc?

    • Roger says:

      What I find interesting is that some marxist rail on the monopolies.

      When Ford came out with the model T to impose restrictions and call him evil for a monopoly would have been artificially limited keeping people from buying his product. Suppose he had said he would only build 400 a year, as an arbitrary limit. Would the country have been better off?

  7. fbanta says:

    225 years ago the Founders and other sovereign Citizens of the US rightfully determined that government is too incompetent to be trusted with any authority to infringe the inalienable rights of Citizens; one of which is right to keep and bear Arms.

    Between the 2nd and the 14th Amendments, no government entity in America has any lawful authority to infringe that right: not for any reason.

    Article VI of the Constitution demands that all laws (and treaties) comply with the Constitution. Therefore there are no valid laws or regulations that can give any authority to any government agency to infringe anyone's right to keep and bear any Arms.

    Any act to the contrary is necessarily an act of tyranny.

  8. Mr. Liberty says:

    Lots of options before we have to fight, although I am a bit pessimistic that any of those options will actually get done with the type of zombies we have in America.

    I like the mount Vernon idea, but other things we can do: class action lawsuits like rand Paul is doing now over the NSA, noncompliance which is basically everyone giving the gov the middle finger, actually voting in people that are not bought off by globalists, ending the FED, petitions and basically continuing what this site and other sites are doing, winning the information war.

    The task seems daunting but with faith in God and each other it can be done!!

  9. Roger says:

    I had more confidence in the courts before John Roberts stabbed the country in the back. Non violent non compliance may be the choice of most, and I understand that.

    Clearly this government no longer wants the consent of the governed and is willing to toss the legitimacy of it’s rule out the window.

  10. Mr. Liberty says:

    They should be tried for treason. If congress or the courts won't do it than we need to conduct citizen arrests.

  11. WeeToddEdwards says:

    They sure are

  12. Roger says:

    Fascism is never pretty.
    And our dictator can't do better than a VP like Biden?

  13. WeeToddEdwards says:

    It never is. Biden is a moron. Can't believe they even let that guy speak

  14. Roger says:

    Some think he is insurance for Obama since Biden so clearly isn't up to the job.

  15. Roger says:

    Still desperate to derail the thread away from the topics the site provides?

    Why are you and your posse so focused on this site?

  16. WeeToddEdwards says:

    No you made a claim and I asked you to prove it

  17. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Thank you Mr. Liberty

  18. Roger says:

    And I asked why it's a legitimate claim. It's not, it's just a tactic to derail and side track from the topic the site has provided.

  19. Roger says:

    Thank him for what. It was a guest posting, it may not have been mr liberty.

    And once again you prove my point, that you are not here for discussion of the important topics provided. Why does this site so threaten you that you have this desperate need to stop serious discussion here?

  20. WeeToddEdwards says:

    So you think you can just say things without being challenged to back them up and then claim it's an attempt to derail th ethread?

    You really do not know how debate works huh?

    Thanks for once again proving you're a troll sent here to wreck another web site

  21. WeeToddEdwards says:

    If I was not here for discussion why would I ask you to prove your claim?

    That is called a discussion

  22. Roger says:

    The question itself answers that question.
    and the fact you keep hounding on it shows you aren' t here for discussion, just the interruption of it.

  23. Roger says:

    I think that some questions are more legit than others.
    And when you post on topic comments then you can expect to be taken more seriously.

    This comment, and yours above it show who is desperate to derail and bore everyone into leaving. Wee, why is your posse so focused on this site?

  24. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    Don't use me as an excuse.

    He asked you a simple question, and you refuse to answer it because you don't have proof, and don't one everybody to know you just made it up, using the vague pronoun "some people."

    You learned that tactic from watching Fox News.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYA9ufivbDw

  25. WeeToddEdwards says:

    You made a claim and I am asking you to prove it.

    And what you think is legit is open to debate since you don't run the forum like you pretend to

  26. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Here is what you claim:
    "Some think he is insurance for Obama since Biden so clearly isn't up to the job"

    I want to know who thinks that. How does that question answer itself? You didn't even provide a link or any names so your comment can be fact checked for accuracy.

  27. Roger says:

    I did to mr liberty (if it really was him) but that part got pulled.

    Dont' pretend I didn't answer.

  28. WeeToddEdwards says:

    You posted a link to MR. Liberty showing the "some" you mentioned?

    Now you are lying and saying it was pulled?

    Post it again then.

  29. Mr. Liberty says:

    It was me the original Mr. Liberty Roger, if someone wants a source than it should be provided. But I have also had random comments pulled from this site…might be software issues.

  30. WeeToddEdwards says:

    I see all the comments were pulled. Good job roger.

    Can you show us who these "some" are with a linklperhaps? I would like to know who these people are and see if you can back up your claim.

  31. Roger says:

    I didn't make any specific claim, it was a rather vague one.

    Why don't you specifically prove that I'm wrong if you think so.

    Wee, you always demand proof and never ever offer any yourself.
    And of course, I would be amiss to ignore that you are struggling now to derail and distract from the topic in the story.

    Don't you want people to realize this marxist president of muslim heritage is seizing power as dictator and wants us unarmed?

  32. Mr. Liberty says:

    Happens from time to time on this site, I too have had random comments deleted. For the record it was the real me that asked for the source Roger. If someone asks for a source it should be provided…I concur that we should stay on the topic of Obamacare and gun confiscation.

    As far as Biden is concerned, let us not even waste our time or minds on that man. He is a tool.

  33. Roger says:

    Bush didn't want to collapse our economy and society. And even then the act was dangerous.

  34. Mr.Lincoln says:

    You got that right it is a root of government gone wild and insane from the IRS and every other trespass against freedom!

  35. Roger says:

    Amen! (comic relief at best)

  36. WeeToddEdwards says:

    I agree when someone makes a claim they shoudl be readt to back it up instead of derailing the topic.

    For some reason someone does not want us discussing the topics

  37. Mr. Liberty says:

    I disagree Roger, Bush and his handlers wanted to remove our freedoms. The Patriot Act is a perfect example.

  38. Mr. Liberty says:

    So maybe they did not want to collapse the economy, but they did want to hurt America.

  39. Roger says:

    Lord Acton would be very popular on the sunday morning talk shows.

  40. WeeToddEdwards says:

    I find it ironic he named it the "patriot act" Bush was as worthless as Obama

  41. Roger says:

    They wanted to limit America.
    McCain has made comments about they know how to govern. I don't want someone governing me. In my estimation that is even more insulting. The unbridled willingness of the US as a people to overcome challenges and rise to any occasion is what makes us exceptional. To have that stolen by some hack in DC that lost touch with his people back home?

    I don't think so.

  42. Roger says:

    Wee, you might want to read his entire comment.

  43. WeeToddEdwards says:

    I did, now you can quit making demands

  44. Roger says:

    "might want to' isn't very demanding. Still desperate to stop actual discussion and debate?

  45. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Frankly I am tired of this administration thinking our rights don't matter

  46. Roger says:

    And you're not alone. Most realize this is the end of a long road.

    We need to turn things around, and I support embracing the founding father's dreams once more.

  47. WeeToddEdwards says:

    We won't get that from republicans or democrats

  48. Roger says:

    He was not marxist, and he didn't have a muslim heritage.

    Bush was also not something else. Conservative.

  49. WeeToddEdwards says:

    He was worthless

  50. Roger says:

    Not always. I can't say that about Obama.

  51. Roger says:

    I prefer the taste of tea.

  52. Mr. Liberty says:

    Haha me too.

  53. WeeToddEdwards says:

    I know, it's rather unfortunate http://aattp.org/20-of-the-most-racist-teapublica

  54. Roger says:

    Most patriots do.
    We even sent all the tea bags to DC, remember that?

    No wonder Boehner is exasperated with us, we just won't give up on our republic.

  55. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Not having a cap makes sure they buy the media

  56. Mr. Liberty says:

    Well the media is biased we all know that. What better way to prove to America that it is bought and paid for than to have a cap. With a cap not one candidate should have more coverage than the other. So if the media does do this, which I guarantee it will, they are busted.

  57. Roger says:

    Let me clarify something. Did you just call me a racist?

  58. Roger says:

    The liberal media owners always have the editorial pages, if we get frozen out of adds then our side is doomed.

  59. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    Why does Roger keep reporting my comment about me having a long deep conversation with him using nothing but quotes from the movie "Dead Again."?

  60. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Nope, just showing the tea party is full of them.

    Be careful who you align yourself with

  61. Roger says:

    Imagine that, getting into deep discussions makes someone an idiot?
    You must not want to risk it. That explains so much about you.

  62. WeeToddEdwards says:

    It is time for a new party

  63. Roger says:

    Go for it. You just do that and show us how it's done.

  64. Roger says:

    Our tea party tossed ringers that came to make us look bad. You only proved that liberals wanting to discredit a tea party could take photos quickly.

    Frankly those looked more like occupy types.

  65. Mr. Liberty says:

    We can find racists in almost any party, group, or religion. It happens everywhere. Correct me if I am wrong Wee but you are a Libertarian like myself, do you not identify with the ORIGINAL tea party's ideals? Not the tea party of today that has been hijacked just like the Black Panthers of the 60s.

  66. WeeToddEdwards says:

    The signs speak for themselves

  67. Roger says:

    Why do you think conversations that weren't shallow are a bad thing?
    It was off topic and I kept reminding you of that. But that's still more than you can manage, as your comments keep indicating.

    Why are you here? I mean, why should the site administrator allow you to post here if you mock deep conversations?

  68. WeeToddEdwards says:

    I am not wealthy enough. You need to be rich to have influence in this country

  69. Roger says:

    So, you called for something you can't manage and won't bother to try.

    Gotcha.

  70. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    , it was just funny to watch how much you enjoy the conversation while not knowing it was quotes from your favorite movie.

  71. WeeToddEdwards says:

    If we had caps I would be able to try and manage.

  72. Roger says:

    No, you couldn't. Do you know what caps are? When editorial pages can say anything and advertisers are limited. You would be frozen out out of the debate.

  73. Roger says:

    Conversations with you are never a thing to be enjoyed.
    And you still ignored my question, why should the moderators tolerate you when you actively mock deep conversations?

  74. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Are you saying you can win elections by writing editorials?

  75. WeeToddEdwards says:

    It was funny

  76. Roger says:

    I'm saying if those editorials have no one challenge them, we don't have free speech. Especially when the government is the one stopping us from speaking up.

  77. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Anyone can challenge them. However it is hard to have free speech when people have comments pulled

  78. Roger says:

    No, they can't. You may want to reference why the courts threw out McCain Feingold.

  79. Roger says:

    I remember we used to have a policy of 'equal time'. I was a little young to understand the nuances. But as much good as it did, it once more allowed the government to decide who was worthy of being part of the debate.

  80. WeeToddEdwards says:

    You're right no canididiate should have more coverage than another

  81. WeeToddEdwards says:

    What does McCain Feingold have to with challenging editorials?

  82. Mr.Lincoln says:

    Yep, the wacko birds drunk on power they are our domestic enemies of the Republic, but so many are distracted by every little thing in the media all by design of course!

    John McCain Lindsey Graham explaining why the NDAA bill, also known as the indefinite detention bill, must become law. The bill allows for any American citizen deemed a "terrorist" to be arrested & detained without a trial. This bill was signed into law on December 31, 2011 (New Year's Eve) by President Barack Obama.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD0GthpIgQw

  83. WeeToddEdwards says:

    I have a huge issue with NDAA and these Fema camps. I live in a pretty rural part of Iowa The main town in my county has maybe 10,000 people in it and the rest of the towns have 10,000 or less most towns have less than a 1,000 people living in them. My point is the county sheriffs office got two military grade Humvess. For what? Police state anyone?

  84. Mr. Liberty says:

    That is scary Wee. Talk to the county sheriffs and ask them why? I live in Colorado and we got one of the biggest FEMA camps in the country. Denver International Airport. Research that place creepy stuff.

  85. Mr.Lincoln says:

    Here is the best advise I can give anyone in America!

    How To Prepare Your Community for Disaster
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LHpK3CnObs

  86. WeeToddEdwards says:

    They got some Homeland Security Funding and this is what they spent it on. You live in Colorado? Ever hear of a little town called Padroni? I have realitives all over that state.

    I am going to check out your FEMA camps. Was through DIA here a few weeks ago.

  87. Mr. Liberty says:

    Yeah I live in northern Colorado, never heard of Padroni is it out east or western slope?

  88. WeeToddEdwards says:

    It's East right outside of Sterling.

    Checked out some stuff on the airport. Undergound Fema tunnles that can be used for mass executions? I will agree arrows point to no where and the place is confusing as hell. I will never look at that place the same again and I fly in and out of there all the time. I still remember the old airport in Denver

  89. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Thanks for the link!

  90. Mr. Liberty says:

    Good link. Good luck to us getting anyone to listen though.

  91. Mr. Liberty says:

    The murals and statues are spooky as well. A lot of globalist praise. Plus there is a lot of Freemason innuendo as well.

    Look up the Georgia Guidestones as well. A little glimpse of their plans for us.

    Oh nice I know Sterling well.

  92. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Why would they have a statue of Anubis? Not very smart at an airport.

  93. WeeToddEdwards says:

    The Guidestones have some creepy and some intelligent sayings on them.

  94. Mr. Liberty says:

    Beats me. What blows my mind was that Stapleton was a fully functional international airport. It was not that old either. Why build another???

  95. Mr.Lincoln says:

    More are waking up everyday! That is when free will kicks in or act and hide like a little girl. No intentional disrespect intended to little girls!

    US history – "How Jimmy Carter & I Started the Mujahideen" – Zbigniew Brzezinski, National Security Advisor 1977-1981 (Jan.1998)

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a13_1240427874

  96. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Good question. Did they give any justifcation when they decided to build the new one?

  97. Mr. Liberty says:

    Not that I know of but I was younger when it happend so they may of had some BS story that I don't recall.

  98. Mr. Liberty says:

    Agreed some of the sayings are common sense but it seems like these sayings were a prelude to Agenda 21. That's just my opinion though, through my research I have not found concrete evidence.

  99. Roger says:

    The humanists wanted to show that there is non religious wisdom.

    It's a mish-mash of this and that designed not to offend anyone.

  100. Roger says:

    Don't you follow the political aspects of legal decisions?

  101. Roger says:

    Then who decides who the candidates that deserve equal time will be?

    In the debates a lot of candidates were not allowed to participate since they weren't 'viable' candidates. Do we want an oppressive government making that call?

  102. Mr. Liberty says:

    I do get the sense of more people waking up, I just hope it is enough. I make efforts to inform people around me in my community and workspace. I just make it brief trying to pull at their curiosity, make them research this stuff on their own, so they can see it with their own eyes.

  103. Roger says:

    Great links are always such a treat.

  104. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Be worth looking into

  105. Mr.Lincoln says:

    This is why the media gives and keeps most people entertained while folks like myself sharpen our research skills and help others find what they are seeking.

    I have learned what I deem as the boiling frog method by engaging and exchanging with them a little bit at a time. This woks very well!

    Al Qaeda Doesn't Exist (Documentary) – 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4lf0RT72iw&fe

  106. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    All the comments about McCain Feingold. are in the congressional record. They weren't pulled because that would not be proper debate.

    That would be a dictatorship.

  107. Roger says:

    Is that another quote from a movie or are you actually trying to make sense this time?

  108. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    What chick flick do you want to talk to today?

    You loved the last one.

  109. Roger says:

    Another example that you don't belong on this forum.

  110. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    Then lets talk on the Belfast site.

  111. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Links?

  112. WeeToddEdwards says:

    I was just over there. They had a good article on the Yellowstone Super Volcano: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news

  113. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    Yeah,, I saw that. Great site, good debate and ideas over there.

  114. Roger says:

    Don't let the door hit either one of you on the way out!

  115. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Great comments too. It's nice to be ablt to comment on several sites with great people

  116. Roger says:

    You can google them. There was a lot of PR work at the time to sway the public on the bonds.

  117. WeeToddEdwards says:

    So you don't have any sources?

  118. Roger says:

    It's heavily moderated, and a lot of comments get pulled if they don't belong, that's why you and to dummy anther profile.

    Wee, how many do you have now?

  119. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    They are good at getting rid of the problem commenters.

  120. Roger says:

    I do, but since it was all common knowledge for that media area why should I have to prove anything. If you want to catch up on the news you didn't bother with before you are free to do so.

    Wee, do your own homework.

  121. WeeToddEdwards says:

    No I was asked by the site to do that

  122. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Care to share them?
    If I were making a claim I would back it up sources to provide the other readers the information they deserve

  123. Mr. Liberty says:

    You are very good at what you do Mr. Lincoln. Your research is in depth and matches some of my own findings.

  124. Mr.Lincoln says:

    Thanks' Liberty! If ever I can help with anything, please ask and I will provide you with my best.

  125. Roger says:

    Sure… your credibility is legendary.
    (sarcasm)

  126. Roger says:

    Yes, so wee sneaks back under a new and anonymous new profile.

  127. Roger says:

    You never do.
    And those that are interested can check on it themselves.

    Why do you want to derail the thread even further for things that were common knowledge?

  128. Mr. Liberty says:

    I can buy that Roger. But I wouldn't call Agenda 21 people humanists. More like technocrats.

  129. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    He didn't sneak on, he was asked to change profiles so that you could not stalk him like you are doing on this site.

  130. WeeToddEdwards says:

    No roger I did what they ask me to

  131. Roger says:

    You just defined the word I used.

  132. Roger says:

    Technocrats. The death knell of any civilization. They've been around for the demise of how many empires?

    Now, they still only answer to the next higher pay grade and nobody else.

  133. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    HAHHAAH!!! Scared of Madonna songs now?

  134. Roger says:

    Why do you think other people or the site administrator want to hear you posting songs about madonna?

  135. Roger says:

    You never see it coming, do you?

  136. Roger says:

    If you want to debate the capitalist system you might as well at least understand what it is.

  137. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    I wonder why you would be so scared of that song.

  138. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    I always see your stupid coming.

  139. Roger says:

    I wonder why you think it should be posted on this forum on this topic?

  140. WeeToddEdwards says:

    All I asked was for you to provide links on why they shutdown the older airport since you commented on why they did. Since you do not live in Colorado you had to of read it somewhere. OR did you make it up. You see I don't know and with your record I can't go by what you say. In a debate style atmosphere is is good to back up things you claim with links or sources. I know I do

  141. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Never said it was but more creditable than yours

  142. Roger says:

    Wee, I understand why you have to pretend that. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

  143. Roger says:

    Sure, and how much for the brooklin bridge?

  144. Roger says:

    And all I said was it was common knowledge and you shouldn't demand things from others you don't do yourself.

    Other people would try first before pretending they can give out homework to others.

  145. Roger says:

    That's funny in a sad way. And this is the best you can do?

  146. WeeToddEdwards says:

    How is it common knowledge when even a person from Colorado did not know?

    I always back up my claims with links

  147. WeeToddEdwards says:

    I stil have the email and I still post on Belfast. Why don't you try to leave a comment on there?

  148. Roger says:

    Wee, so you sneak over there and think you can do that at the same time you want to brag that you a re coin g so. How's that working for you?

  149. Mr. Liberty says:

    Not a party parse but a way of thinking? Focus solely on the constitution when making legislative decisions? Live and let live? Walk softly but carry a big stick? Ideas like that?

  150. Roger says:

    People listen to things that interest them.

    The PR was pretty obvious and boring.

    That doesn't mean it wasn't going on.

    And I don't see any links in your last …. how many comments? Well, a lot of them.

  151. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Exactally!

    Wish more people were like that instead of siding with cons or libs both parties do not have our intrests in mind

  152. WeeToddEdwards says:

    BEcause my comments with Mr. Liberty don't warrant any links because we are having a nice civil discussion and trying to understand each other. It's called being civil to one another, maybe you should watch and learn?

  153. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Sneak over there? I am just doing what the admin asked

  154. Roger says:

    Wee, you never seem to think they do.

    You still think everyone else's do. So you have one standard for yourself and another for everyone else.

    Good luck with that, because I don't 'play that game.

  155. Roger says:

    Sneaking around trying to hide under teh radar screen. There is a group of people that do that, what religion was that again?

  156. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Well Mr. Liberty and I are not engaged in a debate, we are simply having a nice civil discussion. I know you play that game. You play attack and derail

  157. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Call it what you want. The admin asked me to create a new account so you would not BPOMB them with repport button abuses

  158. Roger says:

    Wee my stating an answer to his comments about what happened wasn't much of a debate either but you still just had to be you. you had to jump in and try to stop polite discussion with your own brand of vitriol and attempt to control the thread.

    Wee, that's not your role here.

    And you still demand and pretend that your demand for links was reasonable when there really wasn't much in doubt or even hard to believe.

    It's just your double standard in action. You're not fooling anyone wee, you small little man.

  159. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Roger had mine and your comments pulled. Not sure why. He hates civil discussion. Anyways I don't align my self with any party. Both parties do not share the common intrest of the American people IMO

  160. Roger says:

    Facts explained clearly isn't spinning.

  161. WeeToddEdwards says:

    You jumoed into our discussion and made a claim without any proof to back it up.

    YOu're not fooling anyone, you're a troll

  162. Roger says:

    Wee, I had a reply there too that was pulled, not sure why. It was done by someone that hates civil discussion. And you do align yourself with a system of belief and lifestyle Your earlier calls for justice not in keeping with the western style justice/ courts system hasn't been forgotten.

  163. Mr. Liberty says:

    Your exactly right about that. The two party system is a sham, a show, a distraction, all designed to keep the American people bickering over gay marriage or racism. Instead of us being able to recognize that America is a captured country. The people need to rise up and dismantle the corporate/big bank power structure.

  164. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Well your reply was an attack to me and the admin probably did not think it deserved a place on an adult forum

  165. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Please let us know when you decide to start using facdts

  166. Roger says:

    You make the claim that I should have provided proof just because you were ignorant of the events and too lazy to find out on your own.

    Can you provide links or do you know how? Does it get in thte way now that you're sitting at that work terminal and trying to make a quota every day?

  167. WeeToddEdwards says:

    I never made any claims yoiu did and you demand people provide evidence when they make claims why do you think you should not

  168. Roger says:

    Wee, it exposed you and you didn't have a convenient dodge, so the comment disappeared. Wee, you small little man, you've done that as a tactic since Belfaste, that's why you can't post there under your own profile.

  169. Roger says:

    Wee, when my comment make a ppoint that is out of the normal or little known then I prove my point for this? Your'e just trollign rying to slow me down so you can make yoru quota easier.

  170. Roger says:

    If you dodn't make any point why shoudl I have to prove anything?

  171. WeeToddEdwards says:

    No you attacked me and lied about me as usual. Now I want to you to look at the thread and see where it got derailed. When you made a comment. Mr Liberty and I were having a great discussion and you just had to come ruin it. Why do you hate two people having a civil discussion? Why do you hate Patriots discussing issues that this country faces? What is your real motive?

  172. WeeToddEdwards says:

    So when will you start using facts:

  173. Roger says:

    So why don't you debate and discuss and show why your past positions that accused sexual offenders should be murdered vigilante style even before trial is not more sharia style than western justice system style?

  174. Roger says:

    There are a few loyal to the principles of the founding fathers, tea flavor.

    And both parties attack them as a threat to the shell game they play on us.

  175. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    I am a S oci ali st but I'm very happy with the work of the Democrat Party.

    The Democrat Party is the closest to the original American ideals of our country.

    Have a nice day.

  176. Roger says:

    I did explain the facts as I recalled them. You didn't even have any reason to challenge them or have recall of anything different. So, you are just rolling so you can make your daily quota.

  177. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Because this is not the topic on this thread. Why are you trying to stop discussion?

  178. Roger says:

    It shows my point was spot on and not just some attack as you want to characterize it.

    Wee, you really are struggling to make your quota lately.

  179. WeeToddEdwards says:

    NO, it shows you did this:
    a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion

  180. Roger says:

    Wee, that shows what your'e trying to do, The very fact you posted it is going for an emotional reaction. You are what you just called me.

  181. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Having a cilil discussion with MR. Liberty is trolling?

  182. Roger says:

    Wee, pulling my response to your comment that challenges the emotional response you want to form is not civil discussion.
    It's the tactics of a propagandist.

  183. Mr. Liberty says:

    Alinsky you must know history better than that..The Dems of today are all for BIG government. The founding fathers favored small government. There is no way you can compare the two groups.

  184. Mr. Liberty says:

    Same to you Wee.

  185. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    Some founding fathers believed that government should take over business if the the distribution of wealth and property were in danger. And believed people being taxed is the foundation of our rights/

    And some founding fathers believed that they should own slaves to make profits.

    Also, Mrs. Liberty says hi.

  186. WeeToddEdwards says:

    roger we can both post quotes out of contect all day to make each other look bad. But what does that solve? How does that further the great discussion on this web site? No one wants to see us go back and forth anymore it's old and borining. So just leave me alone and quit stalking me. YOu always engage me

  187. WeeToddEdwards says:

    Thank you!

  188. Mr. Liberty says:

    The slaves point I cannot argue with. But the ones above?? Which men thought that? Hamilton?

    Also, Mrs. Liberty is dead so that would make you a necrophiliac. Gross…

  189. WeeToddEdwards says:

    I don't agree with the slaves part either( wonder where they learned that from) but the Founding Fathers were great men. We need to get back to that foundation (without the slaves of course)

  190. Roger says:

    Why do you think that just saying something makes it true? Agenda only goes so far when you use your talking points.

  191. WeeToddEdwards says:

    YOu are so good at projecting. Why not just quit stalking me

  192. Roger says:

    Wee, is that really the best you can do? How little you have become.

  193. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    Lady Liberty will never die.

    James Madison, Parties
    23 Jan. 1792Papers 14:197–98

    In every political society, parties are unavoidable. A difference of interests, real or supposed, is the most natural and fruitful source of them. The great object should be to combat the evil: 1. By establishing a political equality among all. 2. By withholding unnecessary opportunities from a few, to increase the inequality of property, by an immoderate, and especially an unmerited, accumulation of riches. 3. By the silent operation of laws, which, without violating the rights of property, reduce extreme wealth towards a state of mediocrity, and raise extreme indigence towards a state of comfort.

  194. Mr. Liberty says:

    I agree with those statements 100%. Two questions though: 1 "
    The great object should be to combat the evil", what in your opinion is the evil? 2. Would a free market not accomplish these points that Maddison laid out better than a government?

  195. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    Evil = Corruption = unchecked power

    No, I believe a free market does not accomplish these points, and in fact is the root of evil.

  196. Mr. Liberty says:

    I agree with your equation. I am going to start a new convo window so I can read, they got some issues on this site.

  197. Mr. Liberty says:

    Agreed 100%

  198. Roger says:

    Personal responsibility.
    Not government control.

    The declaration of independence laid it out very specifically, our rights don't come from DC, they come from the creator.

  199. Roger says:

    The problem is that his marxist views never see the state totally controlling society as the evil of private people working to control their own destiny.

  200. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    huh?

  201. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    I never wanted anything beyond what I had coming to me, legitimately,

  202. Roger says:

    Of course you do, that's what marxism is about. Deciding you want what other people earn.

  203. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    The way we see things defines the way we react to it.

  204. Roger says:

    Then it wouldn't be a free market system.
    Suppose the government forced him to price the cars based on the ability of people to buy it instead of his manufacturing costs? It would have stopped the success he had. That's the problem with marxism.

  205. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    Marx was Jewish. Ford would refuse to hire him.

  206. Roger says:

    Focus, the debate isn't about racism. It's about the free market vs marxism.

  207. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    The way we see things defines how we react to it.

  208. Mr. Liberty says:

    My argument is that we are currently not living in a free market in the US. It is the illusion of a free market. The government is too involved in the economy. Big government is in bed with big business. They force small businesses to close shop because of excessive regulations, taxes, insurance, etc. Thus eliminating competition. If the market was truly free than we wouldn’t have Wal Mart being able to sell its garbage food/products for pennies on the dollar because there would be many other choices. Small businesses that focus on the customer not just power. I admit however, Americans are partly to blame for the rise of Wal Mart because we have been conditioned to shop for quantity not quality.

    See link for further examples: Note that I disagree with the authors views on immigration.
    http://www.inc.com/geoffrey-james/big-government-

  209. Roger says:

    Yes, and it's still not a debate on racism but on the free market.

    Under Lenin if the owner of a state run business didn't like someone they would be reeducated in Siberia, so Ford not wanting to hire people was still not as brutal as the millions that died in the USSR.

  210. Roger says:

    More movie quotes?

  211. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    Important things should always come first.

  212. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    There can never be a 100% free market, ever.

    But the lack of regulation, unions and aggressive deregulation on the market from the Republican and conservative and Libertarian Parties,t is what is letting corporations like Walmart to underpay workers and use slave labor in China, etc which in turn allows them to sell cheap products and hurt small business.

  213. Mr. Liberty says:

    Aggressive Deregulation? What do you call Obamacare?

    The US is already ranked fourth in overregulation: Behind China, Japan, and India…
    http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-s

    Unions are fronts for the mob by the way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Brothe
    http://nypost.com/2013/12/05/rent-a-mob-protests/

  214. Mr. Liberty says:

    And our corp tax is highest in the world if my memory serves me correctly.

  215. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    I call Obamacare a great step in the right direction against the aggressive deregulation and lack of.

    Unions are the best thing about our country. And I'd trust a mobster over a CEO any day.

    And as for your survey…

    "The survey used responses from American executives about regulatory conditions in the United States to provide a benchmark against which to assess the Asian scores."

    Really? Is that creditable?

    This is better.
    1 http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-the-myth-of-

  216. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    Your memory failed you, you forgot to mention corporate welefare.
    http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-welfare-tax

  217. Mr. Liberty says:

    True I could of used a better source, but your source is also strange. First where is China? They and other S ocial ist countries are not listed. Is the chart biased?

    Also it seems to prove my point more than yours. According the charts, Greece was the most overregulated economy in 2008. The US was the least regulated (I don't agree with that but that is besides the point of this chart). Greece has extremely low productivity the US has the highest productivity by far. So if this chart is true than less regulation obviously leads to a stronger economy. Greece had the most regulation and look at where they are today? Bankrupt! The California/Detroit of the EU.

    I am curious/mystified about the report McKinsey report, but it is very long so I have to read more before I can comment on the content of the report. I will check back soon on the report.

  218. Mr. Liberty says:

    “It’s not about tax policy, it’s about benefiting the political class and the well-connected and the well-heeled in this country,’’ Coburn said in an interview. “We’re benefiting the politicians because they get credit for it. And we are benefiting those who can afford to have greater access than somebody else.’’

    Your source supports my argument from above…

    Big government is in bed with big business. They force small businesses to close shop because of excessive regulations, taxes, insurance, etc.

    Big business benefits from more regulations because they can afford the new expenses, while their competition (small business) cannot.

    Read more: http://www.storyleak.com/obama-executive-fiat-bac

    Look Alinsky, obviously we both agree that Big business is dangerous. It is also obvious that we have differing opinions on how to fight it. Good debate though!

  219. Roger says:

    Yes, the bill of rights and our freedoms.

  220. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    China has no free market, thus not part of the debate. We are talking about governemnt regulation on a capitalist "free market" system.

    Also, Greece is being regulated into Austerity. You really should look into it and see the differences. Spoiler Alert – my link does not prove your point.

    Greece was doing fine BEFORE they adopted the free market scam that the EURO and big banks conned them into.

    The U.S. is making a lot of profit for the few, while borrowing from China. We are not the highest productivity by far. .

  221. Alinsky Hero USA says:

    I think most problems would fix themselves if Big Business were not able to give large sums of money to politicians.

    And we need to get rid of Super Pacs.

    I think we agree on that.

  222. Mr. Liberty says:

    Absolutely!

    Super PACs run America. F***ers

    We need to eliminate lobbying all together. The real and only lobbyists should be our Reps and Senators. Representing the people that elected them not the super pac that funded their campaigns.

  223. Mr. Liberty says:

    I agree the US has terrible productivity. But the charts you linked suggested otherwise.

    "Greece was doing fine BEFORE they adopted the free market scam that the EURO and big banks conned them into."

    The EU is disgusting. It can only blame itself for the debt crises in Greece. That is why I am concerned with a one world economic system. Everyone is tied to everyone’s debt. Debt = slavery. The big banks love creating debt.

    "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

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