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FBI Ordered Police Department to Conceal Stingray Use

Documents uncovered through a public records request reveal that a Wash. state police department has concealed its use of a Stringray cellphone surveillance device for the last 6 years.

The documents, uncovered by Phil Mocek of the Seattle Privacy Coalition and Center for Open Policing, detail the Tacoma Police Department’s 2008 purchase order. Partially funded by a DHS “port security” grant, the documents also included several invoices and contracts as well.

The device, which extracts countless cellphone user’s data by mimicking a cell tower, has caused alarm among civil liberties advocates in recent years.

“Warrantless surveillance presents great risk to our freedom,” Mocek told Infowars. “These devices are often used to spy on innocent people’s words, locations and associations.”

A subsequent investigation by the Tacoma News Tribune also revealed that the department signed a nondisclosure agreement with the FBI that kept the transaction secret from the public.

Incredibly, City Council members who approved the purchase were simply told that the device helped detect “IEDs.”

“I’ve got to find out what I voted on before I comment,” Councilman David Boe told the Tribune. “This is new information.”

Ronald Culpepper, a Pierce County Superior Court judge, was also left in the dark on the Stingrays purchase.

“If they use it wisely and within limits, that’s one thing,” Culpepper said. “I would certainly personally have some concerns about just sweeping up information from non-involved and innocent parties — and to do it with a whole neighborhood? That’s concerning.”

The Tacoma Police Department has thus far declined to comment on the revelation, saying the FBI agreement may limit what they can reveal about the publicly-purchased device.

“We need to find out how Tacoma PD are using their device,” Mocek said. “They should come clean with the Tacoma City Council and with the public.”

Tacoma joins several other police departments across the country that have actively worked to hide their use of cellphone tracking technology.

Just last June, Sacramento County Sheriff Scott Jones became visibly irate after a local news group began questioning him over his department’s secret Stringray use.

Similarly, the department claimed it was not required to inform the public due to a non-disclosure agreement signed with the Stingray provider – a privately-owned company.

The Tallahassee Police Department also argued that a non-disclosure agreement prevented them from obtaining warrants before using a Stringray as many as 200 times since 2010.

Emails uncovered by the ACLU last June showed how the U.S. Marshals Service has gone as far as teaching police how to deceive judges when trying to acquire Stringrays. A similar records request by the ACLU even resulted in U.S. Marshals storming the Sarasota Police Department in Florida in order to seize Stingray documents before they reached the public.

 

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About Mikael Thalen

Mikael Thalen is an investigative journalist covering foreign policy, information security and digital surveillance. His reports have been cited by sites such as the New York Times, Computerworld, International Business Times and the Drudge Report. How to contact Mikael securely: https://keybase.io/mikaelthalen

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309 comments

  1. Three cheers and kudos and thumbs up to the ACLU for always fighting for our civil liberties.

    Probably a different ACLU than the one looking into the Ferguson incident though….right?

    • No, Ms. Poof,
      I think it is the same ACLU.
      As a matter of fact, I know it is.
      The very same ACLU that is ignoring this incident http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/08/nonwh… as well as the POTUS and the DOJ and everyone else.

      Apparently, it will get no attention until all the folks in Utah riot, and burn their "hoods". Screeching "No Justice, No Peace!"

      I find it ironic, that of all the places in Ferguson that were looted and ransacked, a Pay-Less Shoe Source was demolished. The funny part is, not one pair of work boots was stolen.

      Coincidence?

      • For some reason my effort to respond to you isn't working. I'll try again later, but one thing of note, Tacoma is a very rough city with a fairly high crime rate. So while I can see where law enforcement would want this kind of surveillance, I'm not so comfortable with it due to the tremendous risk of abuse.

        • The articles begs the question of why in fact there exists a high crime rate! Of what use is this massive intrusion into our privacy if it can not even reduce crime and ensure our protection? I was NEVER in favor of handing over my rights, however, I had no choice. Shouldn’t I expect some reduction in crime?

  2. Mr. Thalen, interesting article.
    As an aside, yet relevant, I heard that you were in Ferguson, MO.

    What have you to report?

  3. Too many secrets, too many departments calling shots.

    Open and transparent government limited to protect our freedoms… it's been missing for a while and I want it back.

    • Which freedoms have you lost?

      • The right to privacy in my doctors office.
        The right to choose what insurance coverage I want.
        The right to buy the light bulb of my choice.
        The right to buy a car of the size I want (the Lincoln Towncar for example).
        The right to a school lunch of my choice.
        The right of hanging an empty chair from my front yard. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d62_1348255022

        How long a list do you want?
        Then there are the expressly held freedoms like the one denied by these stingray devices. The right to privacy.

        • You have just as much privacy with your doctor as you've always had.
          You've never had a right to choose insurance coverage.
          You've never had a right to choose light bulbs.
          You can still buy a car of any size available including the Lincoln Town Car (now rebadged as MKC)
          You've never had a right to school lunches.
          You've never had the right to hang a chair.

          Do you even know what rights are?

          • No, the medical records are centralized and doctors have a list of required questions they are forced to ask.

            Just as the IRS was used a club against certain political groups the same people can use medicine and those records.

            Don't be naive.

            And the MKC is not the Towncar. If you had ever been successful enough to own a Towncar you would know the difference.

            And Buick offers a comfortable rear wheel drive sedan in China but we're not allowed to buy it here. How is that for a 'free' fascist regime running the country?

          • So in your little mind, if a doctor asks you a question, you have lost "The right to privacy in my doctors office."

            Are you extra sleepy this morning?

          • In my mind if the feds demand my doctor ask me if I have guns in my home his office has lost all rights to practice as he sees fit.

          • You aren't required to answer the question……so don't.

            You haven't lost any rights.

          • You are uninformed or just a very foolish troll.
            http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/07/17/203031

          • Your source does not support your position.

            Again, you don't have to answer. Your article even mentions that if a doctor asks you about guns, that the answer provided should be taken with a grain of salt.

          • Of course it does.
            Can you show doctors aren't required to ask that question?
            http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3050871/po

          • Your source does not say the patent has to answer the question. If you can find something to support your statement I'd be happy to read it. Good luck, you won't find it.

          • Did you ever hear of Obamacare?

            If you can't keep up go someplace where you can.
            http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2012/11/billion

          • That source also doesn't say a patient is required to answer the doctor's question. Keep trying.

          • So, you no longer deny that doctors are required to ask.

            You just keep losing and can't even realize it since it's way over your pay grade.

          • I see you got lost in the thread again. One more time……

            "You aren't required to answer the question……so don't.

            You haven't lost any rights."

            If I am mistaken, feel free to prove me wrong. Good luck, you'll need it.

          • I see you had to step in and stop discussion in a thread.

            Why would I bother to prove spam is wrong? You're not even trying to put a position out there.

          • In my mind if my doctor is required to submit my medical records I have lost my right to privacy.

          • Submit your medical records to who? WTH are you talking about?

          • You are either uniformed or a very foolish troll.
            http://medicaleconomics.modernmedicine.com/medica

          • Again, your source doesn't back your position. Your source is about digitizing medical records. What does that have to do with "submitting medical records"?

          • Again you make that assertion without any evidence.

            Where do you think digitalized records go?

            Hmmm? You are either a very stupid and uniformed troll or just a spammer here to keep people from discussing the important issues that come up as a fascist dictator seizes power.

          • Your source doesn't address where the digitized records go. Perhaps you should have read your own source before linking it. It may help you look less stupid, but I doubt it.

          • Of course you pretend to know nothing, until you disagree with it.
            http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2012/11/billion

          • Your source doesn't address where the digitized records go. Keep trying.

          • Did you want that address to include zip code and suite # before you'll admit to the obvious?

            Nope, and even then you'd deny it. Trolls, you can't have a discussion, not really. All you do is push your propaganda points.

          • I accept your surrender.

          • I refuse to accept your propaganda.

            Too many people will die. Healthcare should be between the patient and the doctor, not the patient and the political machine.

          • You are correct, in fact I heard 100% of people will die.

          • And under marxism and fascist healthcare systems they want to control to whom and when that happens.

            It never ends well.

          • He is still licking his victory mustache.

            ROGER
            1 hour ago @ Conservative Victory News – Evening Open Post – Au… • 1 reply • +2 points
            Today was a big marker day for me. For the last several years I've had a running battle with two trolls in particular.

            After going as far as hiring a PI and attorney the litigation was served and today was the day WTE was to reply to the court.

            He didn't. I it seems I won by default.

            Liberals have a lot of hot air, but underneath they have so little substance it's no wonder their policies can't be made to work.

            HiPlainsDrifter

            WeeTard is a piker compared to AlinskyZero, a true verminous cancer in every forum he enters..
            Never adds anything of substance, just a shallow marxist, spouting tired talking points and obvious Alinsky tactics…
            Hope you get something from Wee, even if it's just an apology….and a closed trap..

            37 seconds ago @ Birther Report: Obama … – Texas Taitz: Fed. Judg… • 0 replies • +1 points
            Thanks! I have had my hands full with legal issues, yesterday I won by default. I litigated against a troll that used to visit here. Turns out when challenged they didn't show up to fight it out.

            I imagine Obama would be the same way once he's dragged into court over the BC.

          • Are you bragging or complaining?

          • That gave me the creepiest visual. *shudder*

          • You shudder a lot, but this may not be the place to mention it.

          • Why do you think I am "uniformed"? Do you imagine men you meet online wear uniforms?

          • Because there is so much that you don't know.

          • What does that have to do with what I wear?

          • Still have nothing to offer?

            Still ignoring the comments you are responding to?

            Still trying to stop any discussion?

            Trolls, you are predictable.

          • Do trolls wear uniforms?

          • Look around your office, but don't feel a need to spam the site with it.

          • It must be casual Friday.

          • Or it must be casual "Occupy dress down day".

          • I'm pretty sure it's casual Friday.

          • Interesting link. j/k

          • Not such an interesting response to it.

          • In my mind if my doctor has a list of allowed treatments and I can't pay him to provide any treatments outside that approved list, I have lost freedoms just as much as the doctor.

          • Insurance companies have always had lists for what they will and won't cover. Are you new to my country?

          • And patients could decide which company served their medical needs best, now we have lost that choice.
            http://www.cnbc.com/id/101152063

          • In all seriousness, I don't understand your comment. By "company" do you mean the insurance companies?

          • In all seriousness, what other company do you buy from to meet the mandates for insurance under Obamacare?

          • Most people get their health insurance from the COMPANY they work for. Are you extra sleepy this morning?

          • Either you are uniformed or just a very foolish troll.

            Tell that to anyone over 65.

          • Do you ever get tired of being wrong? I said MOST people get their insurance from their employer.

            "Of the 320 million Americans who have health insurance, 60% get their coverage through their jobs."
            http://www.sharecare.com/health/health-insurance/

          • Are you tired of being wrong?

            Medicare funds are being used to prop up the subsidies for obamacare. And at 65 you are forced into medicare and can't go to any private companies. And you can't pay cash for procedures that medicare don't allow.

            Don't you ever get tired of being wrong and stupid?

          • Oh I see, you mean most people get their health insurance through their employer.

            Now that does make good sense.

          • Oh I see you mean that you don't care about the old and sick elderly suffering because they aren't allowed freedom of choice when it comes to something as personal as their health.

            Now that makes no more sense than all your other talking points.

          • Maybe they should get a job like me. You should do the same.
            http://www.storyleak.com/off-duty-cop-arrested-on

            "I don't work like you do."

          • When you turn 65 guess what? Being a paid propagandist won't protect you from the rationed medicare system.

          • Oh no, I might not get free stuff?

          • There you go talking like a marxist again.

            There is no such thing as 'free stuff'. There is such a thing as things you have forced other people to pay for.

          • I give you free English lessons.

          • You seem to hint at a love to give any sort of lessons.

            I'm not interested.

          • I've tried to stay away from this thread, but what does this mean?
            "You seem to hint at a love to give any sort of lessons.

          • Beats the hell out of me.

          • Try breaking it up into words.

            You seem to hint at some sort of love.. (that make sense so far?) to give any sort of lessons.

            And I'm still not interested.

          • Still gibberish.

          • You two, as if you have a single thought between the entire posse.

            You just can't derail a thread fast enough, can you?

          • You sound like your argument is with Medicare, something that's been in existence for decades. I don't see how this is a loss of freedom, nor do I see it as 'tyranny'.

          • Under Obama it has been defunded and rationed as never before.

            You don't see anything as a loss to freedom, and I do.

            So, who is more educated and informed?

            Did you ever find out what the communist manifesto was?

          • A person can opt out of both Medicare A and Medicare B. There are consequences to opting out of either, but the option is available.

          • No, they cannot. They cannot opt out of part A. It's free you know, it also allows them to tell the doctors what treatment they are allowed to use.

            Tyranny.

          • Yes, a person CAN opt out of Medicare Part A by completing and submitting CMS Form 1763, however they lose ALL Social Security benefits if they do so.

          • So, they aren't allowed.

            The fascist regime controls them, or punishes them for refusing to comply. That's tyranny.

          • What are you doing, Roger? You said a person cannot opt out of Medicare Parts A and/or B, I showed you they can. Now you're claiming a person who chooses one or both of those options is being controlled by some mythical "fascist regime"? Do you understand the meaning of the word, "option"? "Option — a thing that is or may be chosen."

            Opting out of Medicare A or Medicare B is allowed. Again, no tyranny.

          • I said they can opt out of B, but not A. And you yourself admit that they are punished and lose all benefits if they do.

            It's not that hard, unless you're an agenda driven hack that hates men and can't reason.

            Tyranny, government forcing us to do their bidding and punishing those who don't.

          • "It's not that hard…."

            There you go again.

          • If you want out of the closet, just do it, but leave me out of it.

          • WTF? I even gave you the form number, CMS Form 1763, which is required to opt out of Medicare Part A, and you're still claiming a person can't? WTF WTF?

            Do you comprehend WHY a person is strongly encouraged NOT to opt out of Medicare Part A? Because if they do, we the taxpayers end up footing the bill for them when hospitalization is required.

            And you're right back to the whole "agenda driven hack that hates men and can't reason" crap. And yes, I've seen the comment you posted a few minutes ago, the "Are the flies busing around your face just too distracting today." I've said NOTHING to you today that in any way is disrespectful, derogatory, or remotely insulting, all I've done is legitimately attempt to debate you on an issue. Bottom line is that you've just lost a debate with me and I've proven you wrong — there's nothing hateful about that, you're just too much of a blow-hard to admit it. So when you realize how badly you've lost, YOU resort to your childish insults. SMH.

            You lost the debate, Roger, and you lost to a woman who has far more knowledge than you. Suck it up and move on.

          • And you also explained that opting out of part A would opt you out of social security.

            No choices, all punishment.

            That's tyranny.

          • IT'S A CHOICE, one that comes with known consequences. A person can also opt out of the ACA, with known consequences. For you to say "No choices…" is an outright lie. And sorry, no tyranny. Do you even know what the word means?

          • The same kind of choice that the soviets gave to people before they were sent to the gulags, and that Castro gives political prisoners before they are shot.

            Either comply or starve. That is tyranny.

          • Oh, I get it now. You've made all kinds of false claims, the whole mammogram business is the highlight, but your actual point is that you don't like the rules and regulations established by Medicare years ago and you've decided this story on this forum should serve as your pulpit to complain about it. I actually thought you might be capable of debating an issue, but you're clearly only interested in repeating Tea Party talking points. Sorry, facts win out every time over rhetoric.

          • That's not the false claim I owned you on.

            Medicare is inflexible and rations care.

            Marxist talking points.

          • Alinsky Hero USA

            Roger is getting crushed. He has no ability to debate.

          • You say that with a straight face?

          • Most straight men have straight faces.

          • Most straight men wouldn't study other men's faces.

            Most straight men wouldn't make a comment like yours.

            Most straight men would want to discuss issues instead of other men's faces.

            If you are struggling to come out of the closet, leave me out of it.

          • Leave you out of the closet?

          • In my mind, if I can't go to any business, including a doctor and pay for the services of my choice, then I have lost freedoms.

            I have a right to pursue happiness, and feeling well is part of that.

          • Your "right to pursue happiness" is not one of the freedoms you claim you've lost, because no such right exists in the US Constitution. You do, however, have every right to go into a doctor's office and request a service that you're willing to pay out-of-pocket for….the doctor has the right to deny your request.

          • As long as it's the pursuit they allow us.

            Tyranny, you defend it.

          • What are you trying to say? And what part of going into a doctor's office and asking for a procedure you're willing to pay for is somehow tyrannical?

          • I've been very clear about what I'm saying.

            If the central government decides what medicine you are allowed to have or not have, even if you want to pay yourself… that's tyranny.

          • The "central government" does not prevent you from paying out-of-pocket for any medication your doctor prescribes. There's no 'tyranny' there. There's a new medication for Hepatitis-C that costs approximately $38,000/month (28 pills). Very few (if any) insurance providers will cover the cost, but you are free to purchase it with your own funds. How is that 'tyranny'?

          • Oh yes it does. Providers can't go outside the guidelines medicare lays out. If you don't have a provider allowed to perform their trades, that's tyranny.

            And you are being obtuse, something you do well.

            If a disabled person on medicare wants to get a mammogram 3 years earlier than guidelines due to family history… guest what? She can't. She can't pay for it and no doctors are allowed to knowingly do any procedure not within medicare guidelines or they risk financial punishment from the medicare goons.

            That is tyranny.

          • The government is tyrannical that I can't even burn coal to heat my home now. What's next, banning poisons from children's toys?

          • Do you think the tenth amendment means anything?

          • Oh, now you've changed things to what Medicare provides to their beneficiaries rather than an uninsured person. That's different than what your original argument was about.

            I went to the Medicare site, http://www.medicare.gov/Pubs/pdf/10110.pdf
            and I couldn't find anything to support your claim regarding mammograms, your claim that a person would be denied an early one if she paid for it sans Medicare. Perhaps you can provide a link to enlighten me? As for the claim that a physician can incur financial punishment if they provide a service a patient wants to pay out-of-pocket for, I'd need a link to believe that too.

          • Still floundering?

            If the medicare patient is kept from buying services from a central government, then it's tyranny.

            It's really simple.

          • I think you're confused about what Medicare is. It's really no different than a private insurance company in that it provides coverage for eligible beneficiaries. And just like a private insurance company, it has parameters regarding what is covered and what isn't. A patient doesn't buy 'services from a central government', they visit their physician who charges them a fee. The only thing a patient buys from 'a central government' is the $104 they pay monthly for their Medicare A/B coverage (costs vary).

            Again, there's no 'tyranny' in that, it's been happening since the inception of Medicare.

          • You are confused, as someone who has worked in the provider setting I can tell you it is nothing like private insurance.

            It's a top down government agency that passes down directives to providers who are terrified to cross them, since it would ruin them financially.

            Have you heard of DRG guidelines? Learn about them and it's a start as to why it's not like Blue Cross.

          • I'm very familiar with DRG guidelines. But they've been in existence for well over 30 years, so I fail to see why you're interested in debating something that's been on the books that long. And I swear, your original comment was not about Medicare, it was about your loss of freedom now, not 30+ years ago.

          • Then you know that when a person is admitted they are paid by the diagnosis, regardless of patient need.

            Why should a provider be punished for giving excellent care?

          • You sure do want to pretend government calling the shots isn't tyranny.

            It exposes your political leanings much more than your lack of understanding of medicare.

          • Uh oh, you don't think he's talking out his backside again do you?

          • Uh oh, I think you're both talking out your perspective backsides again.

            Propaganda is so inflexible that way.

          • Do you realize how limited mammograms guidelines are?

            http://www.medicare.gov/coverage/mammograms.html

            Guess what, if you're 37 with a family history it doesn't matter, no coverage until 40.

            And doctors are being punished by medicare for things.
            http://www.amednews.com/article/20090420/governme

            What doctor do you think would risk that sort of punishment for a patient to get a preventative test?

          • Most 37 year olds aren't on Medicare.

          • Still spamming?

            I said a disabled 37 year old. If permanently disabled they would be on medicare.

            And you side stepped the issue that medicare guidelines ration healthcare. Doctors should decide based on patient need, not a paper pusher in an office in DC.

          • First of all, a woman on Medicare age 37 can get one baseline mammogram between age 35-39 at no charge under Medicare. Beginning at age 40 she can get a mammogram free every 12 months.

            Second, the article you provided from 2009 (5 years ago) discussed potential changes regarding billing more than anything, and since the article is so old, it's difficult to ascertain whether those changes were ever implemented in their entirety. It says nothing of a physician being punished for giving a mammogram or any other test not covered under the parameters outlined by Medicare.

            I think you may have been bamboozled by some talking points (fear mongering) you've heard somewhere, and I think those talking points were incorrect. If you have something to back up your claim as to current Medicare rules, I'd appreciate a link to it.

          • First of all, the medicare guidelines don't agree with you.

            Second of all, your stating things here in an authoritative voice doesn't help the poor disabled woman with a family history.

            Third, pretending to be an authority doesn't make this regime any less fascist.

            And lastly, I did provide a link to current medicare rules.

            Are you always so delusional?

          • First of all, provide a link proving me wrong. I provided a link to support exactly what I said.

            Second of all, I'm not using any "authoritative voice", but why would anything I say have an impact on a woman who needs extra mammograms? She can get what she needs at low- or no-cost through the dreaded Planned Parenthood, so there should be no problem obtaining what she believes to be necessary medical tests.

            Third, I never claimed to be an authority, and even if I had that has nothing to do with your mythical "fascist regime".

            Lastly, the link you provided was to an opinion piece from 5 years ago.

            I'm not delusional, it's very plain to see that. One way or the other, you've failed to provide any proof to what you've claimed. But I still fail to see how discussing the rules/regulations of Medicare has any bearing on this story, it's quite off-topic and seems to be a diversionary tactic on your part to….derail the conversation and move it to something you want to whine about, Medicare benefits.

          • Still making demands with nothing to support your views?

            You have made claims you provide links.

            You can't, you just aren't up to it. Are the flies busing around your face just too distracting today?

          • I provided the links that prove what I claim. Your turn.

          • The links you provide prove my point.

            It's a government out of control dictating to the populace rationed care and no choices other than to starve.

          • Too bad you didn't argue against Medicare 30+ years ago when your argument might have mattered. Well, we both know it wouldn't have mattered, but that's neither here nor there.

          • And you could have admitted that medicare was inflexible back when it might have mattered.

            Well, we both know as a shrew you can't do that, not when you're screaming and nagging a man smarter than you are.

          • Who?

          • Yes, he wants to make sure you don't consider him smarter than you are.

            As if that was a big risk…

          • "In my mind, if I can't go to any business, including a doctor and pay for the services of my choice, then I have lost freedoms."

            Following this thread, I guess he is on Medicare.

          • Following this thread you should guess I understand the healthcare system.

          • I disagree. You seem unaware of what Medicare is and/or how it's administered and what services are covered and what services aren't covered under Medicare. They provide every beneficiary with a fairly thick book every year of what's covered/not covered, you should check it out some time.

          • I know how it is administered and what it is.

            I just provided a link as to what is allowed for mammograms, and how doctors are treated by the administrators of medicare.

            Unless you can prove them wrong, why pretend your uneducated conclusions matter?

          • You provided a link showing a Medicare recipient age 37 can have a free mammogram, and then have one every 12 months beginning at age 40. If I were in the position where there was a family history of breast cancer, I'd likely opt to pay for a mammogram at age 38 and 39, it would seem a wise thing to do. Fortunately there are tons of programs such as Planned Parenthood who offer free and low-cost mammograms for women in such a situation.

            As for doctors and how they're "penalized", you really need to read YOUR link in it's entirety. One physician in particular who lost his billing privileges for 5 months lost them because he submitted claims using two different NPI numbers.<—That's a red flag to Medicare and every other insurance provider that there's potential fraud taking place.

            BTW, don't ever fool yourself into believing I'm "uneducated" regarding healthcare….you have no clue what I do for a living, your comments prove that.

          • Pretend all you want, my link showed no mammograms until 40.

            Is it hard facing the facts unless you can make them up?

          • You're right, no mammograms until 40.

            "Women with Medicare between 35-39 can get one baseline mammogram"

            Must just be a typo.

          • And if they have a family history and that one baseline that you pretend matters, what then?

            All you have both done is substantiate my claims that medicare is inflexible and rations care.

            Want to play again?

          • Want to lose again?

            "Pretend all you want, my link showed no mammograms until 40."

            "Women with MEDICARE between 35-39 can get one baseline mammogram"

          • You both proved my point about the inflexibility of medicare.

            One baseline, even if she has a family history.

            Want to play again?

          • Your point wasn't about the inflexibility, you made a false claim and you seem to believe now saying "One baseline, even if…." will change that claim. To refresh your memory, these are your exact words:

            "Pretend all you want, my link showed no mammograms until 40.

            Is it hard facing the facts unless you can make them up?"

            You're the one making stuff up, and you really don't want to play again, do you?

          • And have you proved that they are flexible? Your main point was that they were just like private companies.

            You haven't proven it.

            You're the only one making stuff up, are you going to start shrieking now?

          • My link, directly from Medicare, shows a one-time screening mammogram is paid for in full under Medicare Part B for a woman ages 35-39, with a once-every-12-months test starting at age 40.

            I made up nothing.

          • You just admitted that medicare rations mammograms.

            You pretend that it's like Blue cross but you just proved otherwise.

            There goes that set of taking points….

            You make up everything.
            It's just what trolls do.

            Has obamacare treated the young like that? Say, one baseline abortion then one per year after a certain age?

          • Let's just take a peek at Blue Cross's policy on mammograms, shall we?

            "Breast cancer mammography (at least one baseline mammogram during the 5-year period a member is age 35 through 39 and one mammogram for each member in each calendar year for a member age 40 or older)"

            Sounds familiar.
            http://www.bluecrossma.com/healthy-times/save-mon

          • Under Blue cross you can pay and get your own if you don't like their policy.

            Medicare providers are punished if they allow it for medicare patients.

            You as a medicare patient have to follow the guidelines, that's not choices, that's not like Blue Cross and it's nothing less that state sponsored rationing. That's tyranny.

          • They are not. Prove this claim of yours: "Medicare providers are punished if they allow it for medicare patients". And don't give me that 5 year-old opinion piece, give me a link to the Medicare rule that proves your claim.

          • Prove I'm wrong.

            I've been arguing with you which is like pushing a rope of sand.

            You have nothing, restate everything as if that makes you different, or credible.

            Call you own doctors office and ask them, my explaining things to you is pointless.

            Trolls don't want facts, they just want to repeat the propaganda points.

            After you call, you can come back and admit you're wrong.

          • You really should read your own links first.

            "Your doctor or other health care provider may recommend you get services more often than Medicare covers. Or, they may recommend services that Medicare doesn’t cover. If this happens, you may have to pay some or all of the costs."

          • That says that they may have to pay for services not covered.

            Not services outside of the guidelines. For example some conditions are covered under certain circumstances. But not under all circumstances. One retired lady had baggy eye lids to the point she couldn't see and had them surgically repaired. Photo's and other documentation barely satisfied medicare to pay. Had they declined, she would have had to pay for it.

            But it doesn't say they are allowed to go outside the guideline or that their physicians won't be fined for providing care outside of them.

          • You also happened to have overlooked or tried to ignore "At least one" Baseline mammogram, so there can be more. It's left up to the physician and patient.

          • The MKC isn't a Town Car? Oh, Businessweek and I didn't know that.
            http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-11-14/w

          • No, it's not.

            Besides the obvious differences, if you had been inside of one you would realize it's not.
            http://autos.aol.com/cars-Lincoln-Town+Car-2011/s

            Also, you said the MKC which is the Lincoln copy of the Ford Escape, not the MKZ the small front wheel drive version of the Fusion.

          • My mistake regarding calling it the MKC, but it's hard not to call it a town car.

            "The cars are Lincoln’s NEW CROSSOVER, the MKT, but they also carry the “Town Car” brand, bolted prominently on the side panel."

          • It's easy for anyone that knows the models for Lincoln over the past 15 years.

            The Fusion is the medium sized car Ford makes, the Towncar was the Lincoln version of the larger car Ford offered, the Crown Victoria. It was discontinued due to federal mandates for stricter mileage requirements passed down by this fascist regime.

            If you want a similarly sized car, the MKS is closer, but an older model, so the article you tossed out pushes it off on the smaller MKZ. You simply don't know enough about it to discuss it rationally.

          • If you want a Town Car, just buy one. It's that easy.

          • If you want a town car, federal mandates have stopped production and you can't. It's that easy.

          • Somebody should tell Lincoln to stop selling them.
            http://www.lincoln.com/certified-used/?searchid=6

          • Thank goodness the fascist dictatorship hasn't been outright seizing them.

            Give it time. Only the right people should be allowed, if you listen to the fascists among us.

          • Your mustache would look horrible in a Town Car.

          • Are you running so low on spam that you have to post irrelevant things of that caliber?

          • It'd look better in a Mazda Miata.

          • You buy what car the government allows you and I'll do the same.

            And it won't be a Miata.

          • Volkswagen Beetle?

          • No thanks, I'm straight.

          • Yet you keep bringing up all those issues that might suggest otherwise.

            How curious.

          • Don't blame me for your choice of words.

            "Troll and trolling are slang terms used almost exclusively amongst gay men to characterize gay, bisexual and questioning or bi-curious men who cruise or "wander about looking"[1] for sex or potential sex partners or experiences."
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(gay_slang)

          • You sure are hung up on sexuality.

            That says something about you.

          • "You are hung……."

            Now you're making me blush.

          • Don't pretend to be straight after that comment.

            I'm not making you blush, you're looking for excuses to think you should blush.

            I'm not interested.

          • Yes you are.

            "No thanks, I'm interested in either of you."
            http://www.storyleak.com/sacramento-sheriff-confr

          • Still into partial quotes and hopes that are futile?

            You have nothing to offer here, why not crawl away?

          • You want to watch me crawl?

          • I would like to just notice you are gone quietly into the night never to be heard from again here on these forums.

          • You also overlooked something, it's a badge used only on liveries, stretched versions made into limos.

            Not standard MKZ's.
            "The marketing folks at Ford are employing a weird double-badge strategy to try to trade on both the Town Car legacy and the MK newness. The line is dedicated for liveries and has a few amenities not found in the mass-market version, including audio controls in the backseat and a higher ride height to make it easier to get in and out of."

          • Michelle took away choices in school lunches, it was a state's right to decide what children ate. You have heard of the 10th amendment?

            You are so dumb, I hate to insult the dumb by calling you that. I have had the right to hang an empty chair, you marxists want to rewrite history? Go do it someplace else, I'm not ready to give up my country.

            A free country. One where I could do what ever I want as long as I was willing to pay for it and no state laws stopped me. Including light bulbs. I had the right to buy any coverage I was willing to pay for, now the fascist dictator stole that right from me.

            Do you know what rights are?

          • You must have really hated giving up your "right" to eat lead paint chips.

            You obviously don't know what "rights" are.

          • In my era baby cribs were painted with lead paint and we somehow survived it.

            You don't know what rights are, and frankly don't seem to care. Could it be that they interfere with your fascist / marxist agenda?

          • You may have survived the lead paint but look at what it's done to your mind.

          • You may not have had to face lead paint, but look at the vacancy in your mind. You have nothing there that can take an issue and examine it outside of your agenda.

            You didn't know about most of the issues I tossed out here, and still are so uneducated that you don't realize you're missing out on the real issues to support an ideology that never works.

          • "Tossed out here" is a very good choice of words for what you have been posting. Clearly you don't know what rights are and you know even less about the health insurance industry.

          • I know enough to shred your claims.

          • You couldn't shred your way out of a paper sack.

          • Yet I manage with you. Are you saying you're more lame and limp than a wet paper sack?

          • There you go again, asking a man you met online if he is limp.

            I'm still not interested.

          • There you go again, hoping I'm saying something I'm not.

            And if you're not interested quit bringing it up.

          • "….bringing it up."

            You just couldn't resist, could you?

          • Still trying to come out of the closet?

            Leave me out of it.

        • Don't forget crazy pills. You need your crazy pills.

        • But yet you don't want privacy for young people in restrooms?

          You pervert.

  4. ROGER is a phony

    ROGER 1 hour ago @ Conservative Victory News – Evening Open Post – Au… • 1 reply • +2 points
    Today was a big marker day for me. For the last several years I've had a running battle with two trolls in particular.

    After going as far as hiring a PI and attorney the litigation was served and today was the day WTE was to reply to the court.

    He didn't. I it seems I won by default.

    Liberals have a lot of hot air, but underneath they have so little substance it's no wonder their policies can't be made to work.

    HiPlainsDrifter

    WeeTard is a piker compared to AlinskyZero, a true verminous cancer in every forum he enters..
    Never adds anything of substance, just a shallow marxist, spouting tired talking points and obvious Alinsky tactics…
    Hope you get something from Wee, even if it's just an apology….and a closed trap..

    37 seconds ago @ Birther Report: Obama … – Texas Taitz: Fed. Judg… • 0 replies • +1 points
    Thanks! I have had my hands full with legal issues, yesterday I won by default. I litigated against a troll that used to visit here. Turns out when challenged they didn't show up to fight it out.

    I imagine Obama would be the same way once he's dragged into court over the BC.

  5. Alinsky Hero USA

    Day 7 of the Roger Reply Boycott.

    Roger peaCOCKING around ID about his "win."

    But hasn't mentioned the thousands of dollars he spent with no hopes of ever collecting from me. Not mentioning that he is still spending cash on a f a g g ot PI that is reading this comment right now.

    Come and find me f a g g ot.

    Tell us how you really feel about Roger. How you laugh every time he is exposed for being gay.

    You know he has never had a girlfriend. He is stalking men on this site.

    But as long as he is paying you his disability check every month you keep that mouth shut tight.

    • Still have nothing to add towards the discussion of the story?

      • Hey Scooter,
        I heard you bragging about your "big day" and your "big win". Are you going to post the "settlement"? How much was it? I'll bet it was millions and millions and millions.

        We are expecting you to at least spring for a pizza and an eighteen pack of beer.

        • Still a nosy little troll that isn't satisfied to stay under the bridge?

          • Nosy?
            No. Not nosy at all.

            You are the asshole who insists on airing your dirty laundry in the public thoroughfare, then complaining because it stinks like effluent. You are the perpetual drama queen, chasing attention like a drug addicted whore.

            Frankly, I could give two shlts less about you, your imaginary lawsuit, your imaginary enemies, and your phucking ambulance chasing lawyer.

            Actually, I never understood what it was that Wee said, that made you get your garters in a bind, but who knows? Maybe you are just delicate.

            I wrote an earlier post responding to Alinsky that got deleted. It was about another Author. It was rumored that he was a q ueer, a h omo. He never sued anyone for calling him those things.

            Ernest Hemingway.

          • You can't contribute. You can't even pretend to be contributing.

            Maybe you're just a delicate troll that is offended by the stench under the bridge and can't stand to stay where you belong.

        • Nice to 'see' you, Iremember. As for the celebratory party, no beer for me, but thanks.

          • Isn't it cute to see the posse rallying around each other.

            Loyalty, you have that much. No brains, but heck…. you can't have everything.

    • Ouch!
      That had to leave a mark.

      Alinsky, did you hear what it was exactly that he won? One would expect it to be hundreds, and hundreds of thousands of dollars, just to offset the tremendous legal bill it must have cost to sue all y'all.

      Did he get a Default Judgement against you as well?
      This is rather interesting. They never found you, they never served you. Can they then get a Default Judgement against someone that nobody has ever seen, or ever talked to? At this juncture, you amount to keystrokes on Intense Duuubate.

      I know that Mittens Romney said that "Corporations are people too", but can a cyber-personality be a real person…………………………….

      • Alinsky Hero USA

        He can notcollect if I have never been served. And his POS PI will never "tap" me on the shoulder, and he knows it.

        Anyway, it's all satire on a public figure, and protected under the first amendment.

        • You both sure are wanting to figure out how this works.

          Why not face me in court and see first hand?

          • I thought your suit was finished?
            I thought you had won?

            I heard your bragging about it, running here and there on the internet. Strutting around with your Peacock Hat and your feather boa. Isn't it hard doing cartwheels and handstands in that outfit?

          • There were multiple defendants.

            And one is a total coward and can't defend his comments.

          • Who was the total coward?
            The one that you couldn't find to serve, or the one that failed to show up?

          • Could you post in English next time?

            Garbled language skills may be the hallmark of trolls, but can't you at least pretend?

            Why in the world would I personally go see a person accusing me of stalking him?

        • Alinsky,
          I just posted the best comment I have ever written. It was something to behold. Pulitzer prize-worthy I hit "Submit Comment" and got this for all of my valiant efforts:

          This comment has been deleted by the administrator.

    • What is he on disability for? He's only 51.

      What happened to all the conservative rhetoric.

      WHy are you taking handouts from communists roger?

  6. Alinsky Hero USA

    Roger @ Storyleak – FBI Ordered Police Dep…
    8 minutes ago · 0 replies · 0 points

    You sure are hung

  7. I encourage anyone reading this to scroll through the various threads and read the assertions Roger has made regarding Medicare. Commenters have provided him link after link disproving what he alleges and yet he continues to be dishonest and refuses to back up any of his claims with factual data.

    Oh, and he can't debate for squat and as of this moment is about 2 steps short of invoking Godwin's Law.

    • Why even reply to this nerd?

      • Initially it was to show that he was being….dishonest. It snowballed from there, but it always ends up the same, he starts in with the insulting, misogynistic comments. Now that he's starting to repeat his little mantras, he can hang out there in the breeze, twirling at the snapping point of his self-applied noose. As I said, anyone who can read can clearly see his pattern and his 'untruthiness'.

        • You were the dishonest one, I have shown you to be wrong and you just circle around and pretend none of that happened.

          Rationed care, limits on services, and nobody to appeal to. Medicare is NOTHING like private companies.

  8. Upon realizing he's been out-smarted and out-debated, Roger begins his customary derailment of civil, adult debate, his standard practice when he's shown to be a liar:

    7 hours ago @ Storyleak – FBI Ordered Police Dep… · 8 replies · -1 points
    "I said they can opt out of B, but not A. And you yourself admit that they are punished and lose all benefits if they do.

    It's not that hard, unless you're an agenda driven hack that hates men and can't reason.

    Tyranny, government forcing us to do their bidding and punishing those who don't."

    Roger Russell, the internet's biggest trolling loser.

    • Apon realizing that being a mean spirited harridan isn't enough to make her facts the only ones in the thread, she now lashes out. All that miss mash of quotes thrown together, she really can't just read a comment and then reply? Nope, she has so much vitriol that she waits and makes a mess of them and then blames everyone but herself.

      Poof, the coward troll that hides behind a cute moniker since she has nothing else.

      • "Apon realizing that being a mean spirited harridan isn't enough to make her facts the only ones in the thread, she now lashes out. All that miss mash of quotes thrown together, she really can't just read a comment and then reply? Nope, she has so much vitriol that she waits and makes a mess of them and then blames everyone but herself…"

        Jesus H. Christ, you idiot. When you make a typo with the very first letter of the very first word, it's time to put down the bottle and sleep it off. Yo, AuthorBoy — "Upon", "mean-spirited", "mishmash". Hope that helps, you illiterate troll.

        • Still the ill mannered shrew? Why is it you have so much in common with the traits of angry drunk bull dykes? Not all of course are as rude and hate filled as you are, but still there are a lot of other similarities.

          • There's nothing ill-mannered about being truthful. You're a stalking, conniving, lying, hypocritical, misogynistic, foul-mouthed heathen. You can't write, you're drunk half the time you comment, you're a worthless piece of slime. As for angry drunk bull dykes, you seem to know a lot about them — did the last woman who kicked your slimy ass to the curb switch from you to a chick? Yeah, no shock there. Now stop stalking me, sleep it off and get a life, you worthless loser.

            Ill-mannered? Nope. Truthful? Every single word.

          • ROGER is "APON" us.

          • Yesindeed.

          • So you want honest? You of course wouldn't recognize it if it spit in your face.

            But, then again I don't think it would want to get that close.

        • Nebraskenian farmer tak and vokupularry

  9. Once more video proved to turn back abusive law enforcement.

    The founding fathers feared this mentality would someday come here.
    http://www.infowars.com/man-stands-up-for-constit

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  12. ex-Harris-employee

    Why did you not mention the name of the "private company" that makes the stingray.

    Its the Harris Crop. out of Florida. {google stingray and Harris ]
    although everyone seems to know that they are the suppler their web site has no reference to the product publicly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_track

    A big aerospace contractor that bought out our little small company in Denver in early 2000's ? then proceeded to abuse the employees where instead of firing people treated them poorly, would not allow them to succeed, and gave scathing reviews with unrealistic expectations and goals, and just abusive demands until they quit.

    They tried that on me but also needed me in my critical IT role. So I carried a pocket recorder for over a year and recorded everything spoken. they refused to get licensed on illegal software usage and then tried to hang me for the violations, telling me not to escalate it, covering it up, filling out POs for small items and claiming it was all there was. what a mess they made and tried to blame me for it all.

    so i became a whistle blower and they were nice to me for a few weeks, then their decision came down and they went back at the abuse.

    I then dropped my recorder and caused a panic in upper mgmt. they fired all the HR people in denver, flew in from Florida and had me an inquisition as to what I knew and how long I have been recording. they finally offered me a bribe to keep quiet but I rather go back to work. after a few days of being locked out of the network and having a shadow following me they sweetened the deal enough for me to take it. but it was not enough, little did I know they would also black ball me from a 6 figure income and 20 year career. I would ace interviews then for no reason they changed their minds at the last moment. I even removed their the Harris corp from my resume and still was not able to secure a job. No one would hire me for a lesser job either thinking i would leave when a better job came along or tried to verify a fake resume and app i was forced to create.

    I had access to everything, everything. and dared to look and copy things to cover my ass. So much for that. but maybe it's time to bring out those archived DVDs and go public with them, they cant hurt me any more then they have, living in a broken down trailer scrapping for money is about as low as i can get.

    what I still cant figure out is what an airspace contractor wanted with a small company who had a software package that managed air time and billings of commercials for radio and tv stations for mostly international customers.

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